What can you learn about marketing leadership from someone who earned his stripes as NCAA basketball official?
Our guest today also had 20 years of corporate experience as an operations and marketing leader, so plenty!
In this episode of #ThoughtLeaderConversations, V2's Roger Courville, CSP sits down with Randy Fox, CSP, author of the #1 Amazon Best Seller The Call to Excellence: Influential Leadership for Impactful Results. Randy earned his stripes with over 20 years as an NCAA basketball official as well as corporate operations and sales leader, and now works with organizations who believe their audience is ready for a transformational journey. Randy has presented to organizations as diverse as Dominos (pizza!), Bic, and Nebraska Healthcare Association.
As you listen in to this conversation, you will:
Discover why excellence is sustainable while perfection is not, and how this mindset shift impacts results
Learn how intentionality is key to creating a positive and effective organizational culture
Understand why putting people first and focusing on process before profit leads to long-term success
Explore strategies to overcome complacency and inspire continuous improvement in your team
Hear how stewardship and a service mindset help leaders create lasting impact and loyalty
Find out why fostering purpose and alignment in the workplace drives motivation and resilience
Gain insights into balancing decision-making under pressure with the wisdom of slowing down and seeking counsel
Discover the importance of developing leaders who, in turn, build and empower other leaders
Learn how small acts of appreciation and support can significantly improve employee retention and engagement
Understand the importance of asking “How can I help?” to build trust and make a meaningful impact on your team
Learn more about Randy and his work at https://www.foxpoint.net.
Series: #ThoughtLeaderConversations
Sponsor: V2, LLC, expert virtual and hybrid event production, www.VirtualVenues.com
Host: Roger Courville, CSP, https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerc/
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UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Roger Courville, CSP: What can you learn about leadership and maybe even marketing leadership from someone who earned his stripes as an NCAA basketball official? Well, our guest today also had 20 years of corporate experiences in operations and marketing leaders. So I think it'll be a great conversation. Hello and welcome to the call.
to excellence in leadership. My name is Roger Courville and welcome to another episode of thought leader conversations sponsored by the crew here at virtual venues, where you can instantly scale your virtual and hybrid event production team with a crew that helps you focus on something other than tech and logistics.
But we're not here to talk about us and I'm excited to welcome to the virtual stage, Randy Fox, CSP avid pickleball player. That'll be a little bit fun to talk about and author of the number one Amazon bestseller, the call to excellence. influential leadership for impactful results. Randy has presented to organizations as diverse as Domino's to the Nebraska Healthcare Association, to BIC, notably and importantly accomplished as a professional speaker, boasting the highest earned award from National Speakers Association, the CSP, which is the certified speaking professional.
That takes a heck of a lot of work and professionalism to get there. Randy, glad you're here. Tell us a little more about who you are and what you do.
[00:01:18] Randy Fox, CSP: Uh, it's great to be with you, Roger and everybody that's tuning in. Uh, you know, the journey to being a speaker, as you know, it there, it comes with a background and a lot of different scenarios, and I certainly love inspiring people and reminding them of the work, the excellence that's before them, uh, as a professional and as a leader, and certainly those that are marketing and branding organizations.
Uh, having done that, as you mentioned for almost a decade in my corporate experience and, uh, as well as out on an operations floor and spent all those years on, uh, NCAA women's basketball court getting yelled at by people because they didn't like some of my decisions and, and, uh, and have had some life experiences as well, right?
Some great highs and some challenging lows and bringing all of that, uh, into the books, into the experiences, the leadership development things that, that I do.
[00:02:15] Roger Courville, CSP: Well, I know you've written multiple books, but let's just, let's start with your, the call to excellence is your most recent, right? Right.
[00:02:21] Randy Fox, CSP: That's correct.
[00:02:22] Roger Courville, CSP: Okay. So what inspired you to write the call to excellence and how does it relate to contemporary leadership struggles?
[00:02:29] Randy Fox, CSP: Yeah. You know, it was really kind of a spinoff of a book I wrote several years ago called Silver Platter Service. And this idea that how do we take maybe something small and then turn it into a significant impact.
And so I've been kind of just ruminating over the last couple of years about this idea of excellence. and what that really looks like. And I run into a lot of people that are striving to be perfect, and they're really struggling, and they're anxious with that, and they're wondering why they're maybe not as fulfilled or as impactful, and they're maybe not seeing the results that they wanted.
And ultimately, that led me to the variety of stories and insights on pursuing excellence, answering a call to excellence, because that is something we can all do, and it's something that we can actually achieve and continue to To sustain, if you will, you can sustain a pursuit of excellence. You cannot sustain perfection.
And that's really what got me to that idea that helping people really be impactful with the results that they are desiring because results do matter, but we have to have a perspective and a process to get there.
[00:03:50] Roger Courville, CSP: That is a killer point. We cannot sustain perfection, but we can sustain excellence.
Exclamation point. So when, when you get a call from a meeting planner, you're going to, you're going to be in front of an audience. What are the top challenges that they know their leaders or their audiences facing with regard to excellence?
[00:04:15] Randy Fox, CSP: They're still talking a lot about change. Is it just, obviously that's an inevitable thing and how they just navigate those changes in their organization or in the marketplace, in the economy, um, The consumer, right?
There's this constant evolution and many of them are continuing to struggle with how do we approach that? And then I hear a lot about complacency where people are around a while and they think that they've been successful and how do they continue to reignite. that desire to pursue something greater than just status quo or showing up and checking the box.
I'm hearing a lot on those two areas, you know, in particular.
[00:05:04] Roger Courville, CSP: Meaning their experience with their workforce or people It is an engagement challenge. People are Jack, you know,
[00:05:13] Randy Fox, CSP: engaging or rising up their level of performance, uh, because maybe they get a little, Hey, we've done really good, right? We're our, our customers are happy.
We're making some money. Why do we need to continue to grow? Why do we need to come up with new ideas? Why do we need? And there, you know, that's a lot of what I'm hearing leaders say is that they're having a little bit of struggle with some people that are just coming in and checking the box. And that might be people that have been there a long time, but it's also some people that are just showing up, uh, maybe the newer generation.
And they're just saying, Hey, I've got a job, like I'm doing my job. And I think that's really what that pursuit of excellence is all about is that it isn't just checking the box. The box, right? It's pursuing something higher on a daily basis.
[00:06:02] Roger Courville, CSP: You ever talk about balance, meaning balancing the need or desire to achieve results with, with say culture or excellence or not burning out or since I haven't read your book, um, you can tell me, no, if that, if that's off topic.
[00:06:20] Randy Fox, CSP: Yeah. There's, there's not a lot in there particularly about balance, but yes, generally. There is a whole level. I talk a lot about people first and process second and then profit is third and a result of how you take care of people and your processes. If you don't have a culture that is creating that, that excellence within, right?
So the desire isn't the bottom line. And to be truthful, that was one of the biggest drivers. that brought me to the speaking world, was what I was experiencing in the corporate world, was a lot of greed, a lot of drive for power. I, I worked for a lot of individuals that were very focused on the bottom line, and all they cared about was the bottom line.
And most of what I speak about, what's in the book, is really about people first. And that if you take care of your people and individually and collectively, you're pursuing excellence together as a, as a family. I speak a lot to people about their business being a family and people working together, you know, families don't always get along, but they stay together, they work through it.
When we look at it that way, it's amazing how the profit. Just almost takes care of itself. I'm not gonna say it takes care of itself, but it's very different than an approach of, of bottom line only. And I'm kind of quite the opposite 'cause I experienced it in a relatively negative way in the corporate world.
[00:07:58] Roger Courville, CSP: Sounds like you and I are birds of a feather. The way I, I started a couple, well I started multiple companies, but uh, one of my business partners I started a couple companies with, used to say, you manage people. or you manage numbers. And, and his point was, you want to manage people. And to your point, the numbers will come.
What was the Zig Ziglar quote? You know, just help enough other people get what they want and you'll get what you want.
[00:08:24] Randy Fox, CSP: That's right.
[00:08:25] Roger Courville, CSP: But, uh, yeah, you're right. Cause I mean, we do, people don't quit jobs. They quit bosses, right? Is I think one of the old adages and the nature of, of, of. Inspiring someone to excellence, I would imagine has a lot to do with that culture that comes from being people first.
[00:08:46] Randy Fox, CSP: Yeah, I, I really believe that appreciation and support are two really key roles that people leading others have. You're right. People will, talent will never stick around if they are not appreciated, if they just feel used, if they're not involved and valued, and I really believe we're seeing a lot more of that with those that are in the workforce for, we'll say, maybe less than 10 years.
They're like, hey, I want to have value and purpose in what is happening here, way more than just making money. And there isn't the loyalty to stick around as there was maybe say 50 years ago, right? Where people work for one company, you have to be really intentional. And I think that's one of the things I talk about a lot in the book.
And what I speak about is that a pursuit of excellence starts with intentionality. It doesn't happen. Cultures always happen. But if you want one, that you desire, you have to be intentional about how you create it.
[00:09:51] Roger Courville, CSP: Is there a particular structure or flow to how you walk through the book? It
[00:09:58] Randy Fox, CSP: is very, I'm going to say almost individually based if you will.
There's, it's a lot for an individual to take on to recognize that the excellence starts with themselves. So it does start with what excellence isn't, what excellence is, ideas on how to pursuit that, and then just some different examples and stories to go along the way, give them some key strategies. I have a segment in there.
One of my favorite movies is a series of movies. I love Pirates of the Caribbean. And Jack Sparrow is crazy, right? He's absolutely nuts. And he has a compass that doesn't point north. It doesn't work. And I kind of use that to talk about where do you want to go? And what's your compass and break that down into a GPS, which actually stands for guardrails, principles, and sincerity slash truth.
And how do you frame, you know, where you're headed? And we walk through areas to be brilliant in and how they stand out to be irreplaceable in the organization that they work. And it's not about irreplaceable for ego. But that you're willing to do so much to bring so many different aspects of value to what you're doing that at the end of the journey, if you will, they realize that this pursuit of excellence is ongoing.
It starts with them, and it's a beautiful, positive spread. Cause it will catch on like wildfire because it's something that people all really desire, but it is hard. It's hard work and some people just don't want to put in hard work. Let's be honest.
[00:11:50] Roger Courville, CSP: Yeah. Yeah. And well, let's think about our audience marketers.
You know, there is a significant part of marketing. That's very operational focused, right? But we often think of marketing as, as branding and figuring out the right colors and, and whatever that might be. But there's a whole lot of operational stuff that is or isn't made more efficient by the, by how people attack it.
So, you know, your ability to lead people into that, um, into that pursuit of excellence, um, I think will have, has a lot to do with the marketing operational, uh, productivity. Let's transition though. I'm curious about a little more of your story. Talk to me about being a collegiate basketball official. How did you even get into that?
[00:12:40] Randy Fox, CSP: So when I was, uh, uh, I played basketball as a kid, loved the game. Uh, my dad was a coach, so I just grew up around the game and I just, just kind of fell in love with the game as a freshman in college and my, my roommate and I decided that for a little extra money, we would, uh, let's, let's go out and start refereeing basketball and, uh, just started doing that through college.
And when I got out, it was like, I loved the experience, still being involved in the game, uh, what was involved, and so I, I was on a journey. That I wanted to get to a collegiate level as quickly as I could. And, uh, yeah, when I, once I got there, I hung out there for almost 25 years refereeing on the floor and, uh, it, it is different.
It takes a unique personality to, to want to sign up and say, I'm willing to go there for the purpose of nobody caring about me. I want to be a steward of the game and I know that I'm walking into conflict, you know, and then really that's what People that really want to be great leaders. You want to be a really great marketing leader.
You have to be prepared for pressure and conflict and working with people. And at the end of the day, it really shouldn't be about you, right? It's about the work that the team does and how the brand succeeds. And that's really what being a referee was all about. And it, I have some of my best friends. a referees as a matter of fact, uh, my wife and I met because we were both referees.
[00:14:22] Roger Courville, CSP: I love it. I, uh, reffed a little bit of softball. My dad reffed high school ball for 20 plus years just because he loved, well, one making a little few extra bucks, but just loved sports, right? It was football in the fall and, and, uh, basketball in the winter. And, and, you know, that was just one of the things he did both for a few extra bucks, but just because he loved, and I loved how you just put it being a steward of the game.
Just out of curiosity, do you ever, when you're talking, you know, when you're delivering a keynote or something, do you ever talk about, Leadership as being stewarding the game.
[00:15:05] Randy Fox, CSP: Yeah, I, uh, I will weave it in, but many times I'll ask the audience, what do you think it takes to be a great leader? And I'll keep going because eventually I know there's somebody in there that'll say, Maybe they'll say servant, you know, or they'll say a supporter, but it's a steward of the game.
Because really that, the game is bigger than, than any individual. Referees aren't there for any other purpose. They're not, they're, they're unbiased, right? They're not, they're, they're literally there to help the game be better. And if people thought about their role as a leader in that way, right? I, I'll be honest.
I, I was a leader, uh, even when I was in college and I, and I was young, but from the corporate world, I was moved very, very quickly into leadership roles. I, I was in my mid twenties and I was leading teams with people twice my age. With obviously twice as much experience, you know, 25 times experience.
They've been in the, you know, at the organization for 25 years, I've been there one and I was promoted really, really fast and I did really great work, but I'll be honest, I, I was leading for me. I cared about my results. I cared about the performance of the organization for my bonus, how I could get promoted.
And the reality is, is that it's totally different when you recognize that your real job is to help others win and that, you know, you win when they win and that you become more of a supporter and a steward, you know, of that. And sometimes life experiences and and wisdom. Age helps with that. Um, but I really try to share messages for people to catch it without experiencing the failure or the, uh, individual inward view that maybe I, and I see, I think a lot of leaders still have, you can become a lot more successful when you are leading for others.
[00:17:16] Roger Courville, CSP: Yeah, a little bit ago you used the word purpose and the thing that flashed in my mind is how people will go to war for purpose and mission, right? And when you said that, because it so resonated with, with my heart, I mean, there was a time, uh, it was the company that I was working for that got acquired by Microsoft, how I ended up at Microsoft.
And we were going through some massive growth. And I, I got selected for a special project and I was making more money than I had ever made and I was miserable because it was something I was good at, but it wasn't aligned with me and my purpose. And, you know, in my case, maybe not unlike some of your story.
I felt like I was failing on the inside and I had to stay there because, you know, at the time I had, you know, two little kids at home and the, the nature of, of where and how we connect our, well, I guess I'll pose it as a question when we connect who we are to a higher purpose, we'll go, we'll go, we'll go that extra mile, right?
You talked about sustaining excellence. To flip that around when you're talking to a leader, how are we talking to them about developing or elevating that meaning and purpose for their crew?
[00:18:46] Randy Fox, CSP: Yeah, and that is a really important point because what's their desire, right? What's their purpose? Are they really there?
Because if they're there to lead others, They aren't just there to lead those people. Their real goal should be develop those people so that they can lead other people. And if you're developing leaders that develop leaders, you actually create a much stronger organization. You know, some of the greatest leaders that, if you, if you look around, around the world, even around businesses, they surround themselves with people that are actually more, have higher level of aptitude and intelligence in areas that they don't.
They are not afraid to be less smart, if you will, than somebody that reports to them in the room, right? Their guy, their job is to guide the ship and they need really intelligent people in specific areas to do that. If people would get away, um, from the idea of thinking they're inferior, right? Develop people that can develop people and get people in those right spots.
And then get out of their way and let them go. That's how people grow. That's how organizations grow. And you're spot on the, it does come back to what I say is that the pursuit of excellence is having our thoughts and our words. and our actions at the highest and best level possible. So in order to have our actions in a good spot, right, we got to have our words in a good spot, but neither one of those happen if our thoughts are in a bad spot and the driver to the thoughts Why are you there?
What is your real purpose? And that's going to then drive that pursuit. And I think it really helps people. It's a really refreshing way to lead and people respond to it. It's just, it's amazing. And speaking of purpose, I think a lot of people even need to be just reminded sometimes, why, right? I speak to education or speak to healthcare.
I think of those two industries as an example, but there's so many people that, okay, they love marketing. They did love marketing. They came into it for a reason. They had a why, they had a purpose. And somehow we lose the excitement and the passion over time. Yeah. They got to reconnect to the why and the purpose and get beyond just showing up for a job and doing the task, collecting the paycheck.
I, it's to me, that's a hamster on the wheel. It's a rat race, a lot of movement, no actual motion. And so it really takes some intentionality and recalibration in their heart, thoughts, words, and actions to, to get that to all align. And I love that word. You said it's aligning all of that.
[00:21:52] Roger Courville, CSP: That's a killer illustration.
The hamster on the wheel, a lot of, a lot of motion, not going anywhere. That's a great, uh, that's a great, uh, illustration. What advice do you have for leaders who struggle with decision making under pressure?
[00:22:11] Randy Fox, CSP: Well, the first two things that come to mind are number one, You have to slow down a little bit, right?
I mean, you can't make it too rushed of a decision, but like when I was on the basketball court, right, there's a difference between seeing contact and immediately making a decision, seeing contact and taking a second to decide. So it's slow down, but this isn't, okay, you've got forever, right? Things are moving rapidly.
Second piece is don't go it alone, right? You got to make a smart decision. Seek counsel. Get some wisdom from some other people. Bounce an idea off of someone. But the biggest one for me, and it's the same thing as an elite referee, is the same thing as an elite leader. You cannot be afraid. You have to be willing, not wanting, but willing to fail.
Sometimes you're going to get it wrong, but you cannot be so paralyzed. Right. You have to just make a decision and then finally be willing to learn from that if maybe it did miss the mark. But I think there's so many people that are so afraid with big decisions that they literally do nothing or they just push it down the road.
And at some point, you've just got to blow the whistle, make a decision. That's what you're paid to do as a leader is decide.
[00:23:42] Roger Courville, CSP: Yeah, that's a great point. Talk to me about You're, uh, one of your other books, uh, is there a companion book that goes along with the, uh, the main one that we've been talking about here?
[00:23:57] Randy Fox, CSP: Yeah, I think Silver Platter Service, uh, Silver Platter Service was how to create a culture of excellence and that really kind of set up, uh, this book. Uh, that book was actually written. I'm going to say like the most, the meat of it was written in 2020. So if we remember what was going on in the world in 2020, uh, so there's a lot of elements in there about people, about trust, about connecting and working effectively together, about navigating change.
And that really is kind of the setup, uh, for, for this, for this book, The Call to Excellence. Another book that I actually rewrote, did a second edition of, um, The first one came out probably a decade ago, um, is called a leader worth following the real take on real leadership. What does it really take? And we've actually talked about some of those things today, whether you use the word servant or steward, how we appreciate and support our team.
ability to keep going even when it's hard. Um, so yeah, I have about eight titles that are, you know, have been published. I wrote a book with a another division one referee, and he and I wrote a book called You're Missing a Great Game, because we would hear that from fans all the time. And so we just wrote some insights about leadership, you know.
And, uh, one of my favorite chapters of that book is that, uh, failure is an option, failure is an option. And another one was it takes 10 years to become an overnight success,
[00:25:44] Roger Courville, CSP: right?
[00:25:46] Randy Fox, CSP: Because at the end of the day, everybody just sees this success. And it's like, it takes real work to be an effective leader.
And so all of these books have, you know, different strategies. And, uh, I think like yourself. People love stories, so they're filled with real stories. Some are funny, some are just insightful. Some are actually a little emotional and to get people to be moved, to see the, you know, the opportunity that they have, uh, to be that leader that's worthy of being followed.
And, and I say this all the time, people will follow a leader. if they have the characteristics that are worthy of being followed and they have somewhere worthy of going. And that really is what it comes back to is that heart issue of stewarding and developing leaders to develop leaders.
[00:26:47] Roger Courville, CSP: Two final questions here as we wrap up.
Is there any final piece of advice that you would offer leaders who are looking to make an investment? A lasting impact, leave a legacy in the process. Or have we already answered that when you talked about leaders making leaders?
[00:27:03] Randy Fox, CSP: Yeah, I think that's a big element of it is leaders making, developing leaders, you know, is so key, but I do have a question for them.
You have people that, that you've been charged with, right? You have the honor and the responsibility to lead these people. And I think one of the greatest questions that you can ask your people is four words, how can I help?
And if you go to work on whatever that answer is, the legacy takes care of itself.
[00:27:47] Roger Courville, CSP: Randy, are there any other questions I should have asked you that I haven't?
[00:27:52] Randy Fox, CSP: I don't think so, but it's been a great conversation.
[00:27:55] Roger Courville, CSP: Well, I mean, I appreciate you taking a little bit of time because I mean, I know you're You're a busy and accomplished speaker.
I mean, I appreciate you taking a little time to share a few of your little wisdom nuggets with us today. What's the best way for people to get in touch with you?
[00:28:09] Randy Fox, CSP: Foxpoint. net. Everything's there. Foxpoint. net. All of my information, keynotes, leadership development, my contact info. Uh, just check out the website and everything's there.
We'd love to act with them. If it makes sense,
[00:28:24] Roger Courville, CSP: it's a, it's a professional website. Whoever did your website. Good job. So, well, thank you.
Thanks again to Randy Fox for sharing a bit of his wisdom for us today. And, um, thanks again to our sponsor. Virtual venues where you can instantly scale your hybrid or virtual event production team. We'll see you on the next episode of Thought Leader Conversations.
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