How is neuro-marketing different than traditional marketing? How does this relate to the science of attention? And how might you use this to craft more persuasive marketing communications that set sales up for success?
In this episode of #ThoughtLeaderConversations, V2's Head of Strategy Roger Courville, CSP connects with a vibrant Edie Raether, CSP. Edie's the author of seven books, including Forget Selling: 12 Principles of Influence and Persuasion in Sales, Leadership and Life. She's inspired over 3000 professional associations and F500 companies ask a speaker/trainer, and has appeared in appeared in countless publications including the WSJ, USA Today, and Selling Power.
As you listen in you will:
Discover how neuromarketing differs from traditional marketing and how it can be leveraged to capture attention and drive persuasive communication.
Learn why the subconscious mind is more powerful than the conscious mind and how targeting it can revolutionize your marketing strategy.
Explore why attention is the currency of the future and how to effectively capture it in a world increasingly dominated by AI.
Understand why psychographics, rather than demographics, are key to crafting messages that resonate deeply with your target audience.
Gain insights into the psychology behind selling, including how to appeal to emotions and the importance of framing your message to avoid objections.
Learn the art of managing tension in sales conversations to drive action without overwhelming your audience.
Discover how dopamine influences buyer behavior and how to use this knowledge to create more compelling marketing campaigns.
Learn techniques for crafting messaging that speaks to the deeper needs and desires of your audience, moving beyond surface-level benefits.
Learn how to ask the right questions in sales conversations to lead your audience to sell themselves on your product or service.
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Series: #ThoughtLeaderConversations
Sponsor: V2, LLC, expert virtual and hybrid event production, www.VirtualVenues.com
Host: Roger Courville, CSP, https://www.linkedin.com/in/rogerc/
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UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Roger Courville, CSP: How is neuromarketing different than traditional marketing? And how does this relate to the science of attention? And how might you use this to craft more persuasive marketing communications that set up sales team for success?
Hello and welcome. My name is Roger Courville and, and welcome to Neuromarketing for Power Selling.
And welcome to another episode of Thought Leader Conversations sponsored by the crew here at Virtual Venues, where you can instantly scale your virtual and hybrid event production team with this crew. It has a lot of experience helping you focus on something other than tech and logistics, but we're not here to talk about us.
And I'm excited to welcome to the stage, the author of seven books, including a bestseller in China, I think she said, E. D. Razor. And, uh, one of which will be touched down with what we're talking about today, forget selling, and we'll get back to that. But I want you to meet E. D. because E. D. Rayther is the CSP.
We'll get to that too. TEDx, an international keynote speaker, change strategist, brain trainer, multiple book author, including Forget Selling, Twelve Principles of Influence and Persuasion in Sales, Leadership and Life, has inspired more than 3, 000 professional associations and Fortune 500 companies, has appeared in countless publications, such as the Wall Street Journal, USA Today and Selling Power.
And importantly, CSP certified speaking professional, the highest earned award from National Speakers Association. That's a really big deal. Dopamine Diva, Maestro of Motivation. Welcome Edie, I'm glad you're here.
[00:01:31] Edie Raether, CSP: It's so good to be here. Wow. I wish I could clone that introduction. You're wonderful. Let's do that again.
All right.
[00:01:39] Roger Courville, CSP: The check's in the mail.
[00:01:42] Edie Raether, CSP: Yeah.
[00:01:43] Roger Courville, CSP: Tell us a little more about who you are and what you do.
[00:01:47] Edie Raether, CSP: Well, you know, I have a background actually as an occupational therapist, liked the psych part the most, got my master's in clinical counseling. So I do have a psychotherapy background, started doing a lot with neuroscience 50 years ago, hypnosis, brain training and so forth.
But science hadn't proven what I was doing, except what I was doing was working. So for my whole life, whether it's children or CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, I'm really about helping people think bigger, better. older to get the results and performance that they desire. That's it.
[00:02:22] Roger Courville, CSP: That's great. Well, let's dig in.
Uh, let's begin even with definition. What is neuromarketing and how is it different than traditional marketing?
[00:02:32] Edie Raether, CSP: Well, you know, and, and I do work in stress management wellness because of my healthcare background. And so I was doing neuro wellness. And then I have a children's character building program.
Actually, my first TEDx talk, Brain Fitness for Kids, Cloning the DNA of Einstein, reveals all of the magic in that program. And that's when I thought, wait a minute, I've been selling all my life, 50 years now. If you're in, if you're a solo person, you gotta know how to sell, right? And that's when I thought, wait, why don't I apply this to sales and marketing and everybody?
I mean, it's the fuel and the lifeblood of any business. So I think, you know, one of the differences is just simply understanding that, um, you know, it's all about the subconscious and it's understanding that I have a cap here. The subconscious is a hundred a million times more powerful than the conscious mind.
So if we really wanna be successful in selling, we've got to pitch to a deeper level of mind if we wanna get results. If you want skinny kids. It's fine. But if you want to be productive and make some nice money, it's really a matter of knowing the psychogenics, Roger, rather than, you know, the, the demographics, it's the, the psychographics.
I'll give you an example, Prince Charles and Ozzy Osbourne, that's demographics. They were both born, I believe in 1948, England, you know, British, all of that. Those are the demographics. Demographics. Would you sell? the same way to Ozzy Osbourne and Prince Charles. And so what I'm focused on is more understanding the psychographics rather than the demographics.
And it's really about how to get their attention. And let's face it, with, with AI, and it's only going to get more crowded and brains are more cluttered by the day, by the day. They, they expect even the last, in a couple months that there's going to be a hundred times more, you know, AI choices and so forth.
So to sell today, we really have to, you know, cut through the clutter and be more than the purple cow. We just, you know, right now, I think, um, attention is really the currency of the future. It is, and it's hard to get. So you gotta have the hook. You really have to have the, the persuasive language to. First of all, even get the attention and there, you know, we talk about attention spans diminishing.
Do you know that now you have two seconds? Two seconds on your website. Otherwise, people are gone. Is this crazy?
[00:05:18] Roger Courville, CSP: Yeah,
[00:05:21] Edie Raether, CSP: and you know, and there's a different buyer I I did another talk more recently a TEDx talk on is AI and digital dopamine making us dumb Roger And I gotta admit I'm horrified by what I learned in doing the research for putting it together.
Um, the average IQ in my age group, I'm 80. My age group is, um, you know, about average, almost 15 points higher on an IQ test than the average today. So there's a whole different part of the brain that we're selling to just because, I hate to say it, there's a little bit of dumbing of America going on. It's not good news, but we, you know, we can't correct the problem unless we address it.
So I'm getting it out there.
[00:06:12] Roger Courville, CSP: You mentioned the speed of change as one of the components in the engine problem. I remember, in fact, I used to quote Eric Schmidt when he was the CEO of Google, and this was about 2010, I think it was, said in an interview that we're generating as much information in two days.
as all of previous human history. And that was 14 years ago. So to your point and I'm a heavy AI user, I love it, but to your point right the idea that um that I could use a tool generatively is going to do what? It's going to generate. Um, and it can be massively productive, right? I mean, I'm working on my doctorate, as you know, and, um, one of the heavy lifting parts of that is after you do a whole bunch of interviews, you get them transcribed and then you have to go over them, right?
And you can end up with 70, 000 words of stuff to then begin coding to see what similarities emerge with regard to the people you're interviewing. But I can plug that into AI. And ask it to run some tasks, and it does it in a matter of minutes, what it would otherwise take me days to do. I mean, that's crazy.
So it's, um, I'm with you. It's, and there's some, probably some scary implications in there too.
[00:07:36] Edie Raether, CSP: Well, you know what? It's a great tool, Roger. But, you know, I, and, and you mentioned being the dopamine diva. I have really gotten into dopamine, and we are literally a nation of addicts. You may not smoke cigarettes, drugs, or booze.
The dopamine addiction from this is, you know, and it's not just our kids, their parents are teaching them that parents are using this as a babysitter. And if the only way that we know how to get our dopamine, that feel good chemical, is from, more time on your phone and Facebook and all of the social media platforms.
I live on the lake. I saw one water skier all summer because it takes skill. It takes more. People will still ride in their boats, but but we're not developing our body, mind, spirit, our souls. You know what I mean? It's, it's just too much effort and the brain is lazy. And that's why when we're doing our marketing and selling, we have to make it easy and convenient because the brain is into conserving and preserving energy.
It's survival. And, and so if this is your survival and you don't understand nature or just winning a relay race, I just don't. I mean, I was out playing croquet every day. I saw a set at Goodwill the other day, and it's there 10 weeks later. Nobody's playing croquet anymore. No, kids aren't outside. So we have that whole issue.
And then when we talk about sales and marketing, we really have to understand dopamine as well, because it's the internal reward system that drives, listen, all habits, all motivation, all behaviors. So it's really a matter of knowing what rewards you. and rewards your avatar, your would be
[00:09:39] Roger Courville, CSP: Right. So say a little more about that.
You, you have gone beyond demographics to psychographics as you're kind of figuring out who you're going to market to and how you're going to get their attention, et cetera. How do you begin to say, okay, somebody who has this kind of psychographic profile, however we've come up with that, how do we take that and understand what that's going to mean in terms of attention and dopamine and, and then ultimately messaging?
[00:10:06] Edie Raether, CSP: Yeah, exactly and ultimately messaging and that's exactly what it is, you know We first have to know that we are so driven to avoid pain more than pleasure. So I do a lot of motivational keynotes and Fortunately the keynote usually is just to inspire motivate set the energy in the tone but But it doesn't sell because it's aspiration, and that's such a small percentage of why people buy.
It's going to be to avoid their pain. And the pain is going to be different for everyone. So I think a lot of times these cookie cutter kinds of solutions just don't work. And the fact is, not only is everybody's pain Pain unique, but it is their perception and so that's why we have to really get into their psyche because it's it's their perception of that reality that really makes a difference because actually.
There, you know, reality is a pretty nebulous thing. It's all what we project and then perceive. And, and so you really almost, I think a good sales marketing person really has to be grounded in psychology more than one on one. more than one on one. And then it's a matter of, of knowing where, where they look.
I mean, do they look on Facebook or LinkedIn? So we've got to meet them. It might be in the local bar or saloon. I don't know, but that's the other thing that we have to do. But I know this, that about, you know, there's different numbers on this, but basically about 95 percent you know, of all decisions are made on the subconscious level.
I have been drinking the subconscious since I was 20 years old for 60 years. Um, because it fascinates me and we have to realize the subconscious is 1 million times more powerful than the, than the conscious mind. It's a one way circuit. So we have to message. So that we hook, so to speak, it sounds so manipulative and I'm not into manipulation, I'm into integrity all the way, but let's just use that term because we're all familiar with it.
We really have to get the buy in on that deeper subconscious level, whether it's their fears, their anger, their pain, what they're, what they're avoiding. And then we bring it up. to, you know, the neocortex or the, the uniquely human part of us, which is the, the creative mind, the, so it's the executive function.
So the decision, a lot of times the, you've probably heard this quote, we decide by emotion and justify it with logic. If you really want something, don't you buy it? And then it's like, well, I'll sell the old truck and that'll justify the, you know, um, candy apple red convertible or whatever you may want to get.
So we find ways to justify, if it's, if it's to continue smoking. Use that as an example because I hypnotize people for, you know, habitual changes of any type. You know, it's interesting how many will say, we got to die anyhow. You're going to die of something. You know, get rid of the excuses. Yeah, I'm going to die too, but my doctor thinks I'm going to be around for another 25 years.
I'm going to take care of myself because if I'm around at 105, I want to feel dang good. And so we just have to constantly listen to how they're framing things. and then reframe it in a way that is palatable to them, acceptable. And what's even more important, Roger, you know, so many people in sales talk about dealing with objections.
That's a bunch of BS as far as I'm concerned. It really is. A good salesperson, a good salesperson, um, is they're going to ask questions in the right way that people will sell themselves. Pete, you've heard this. People love to buy but they hate to be sold. The answer to that is you gotta master the way you ask questions because that stimulates, and here again we're going back to the brain, it stimulates the reticular activating system and that is almost like a Google search.
It's an auto search kind of part of the brain. So when it hears a question, it immediately searches for the answer. So I'll give you an example. I have my first talk on brain fitness for kids. I have a children's character building program. I believe I can fly. Parents have seen a significant change.
playing one of the audios. It's a book audio. It's a complete system of thinking. Five minutes into the audio and they saw a dramatic change in self esteem and confidence. So it's really a matter of, you know, just speaking to the subconscious with, you know, it can be stories. It's what, let's talk to the emotional brain.
Um, people want to know that you understand them. I mean, people go to psychics and it's, and I'm not putting them down. There are some good ones, but it's interesting because they'll get enough information from you. And then they kind of feed it back. And it's like, Oh my gosh, they know me. They see me, you know, it's a credibility thing.
So as soon as we get into that, Then we have that kind of rapport and connection where people will basically follow you anywhere, but you have to have that connection. But I'll tell you another thing. That is not enough, Roger. How many years have we heard that people buy from people who know, like, love you, trust you?
How many times have we heard that? Okay, that is not wrong. But it is not enough. I used to sell magnets, magnetic therapy to give more energy, you know, and all of that. I've sold, I've sold everything. I must look like the multi level marketing queen. Don't call me. I, it never works for me, but I sit in the airport and people must just scan.
I must just look like a sucker. Maybe, I don't know. And I'm not against multi level marketing, but that isn't my calling in life. But you know, the bottom line is. And now I forgot my thought because I was getting onto the multi level marketing. What was I, what was the last thing I said? Um,
[00:16:43] Roger Courville, CSP: Well, the last word that I heard you say, I think you were going down the path of connection.
[00:16:48] Edie Raether, CSP: Yeah. Connection. You got it. Okay. I, I, my cats woke me up early. I didn't get much sleep. That's not an excuse. So, so what it is, is I I've sold all these things I can name. Most of my relatives never bought any. One did. My neighbors never bought any. They all love me. They like me. They, so the bottom line is, yeah, we need the connection, but that is not enough.
I don't know, and I was going to go into this later, but since we're into this, do you happen to have that, um, visual that I sent? Is that easy to access? It might be a little bit much and confusing, but it actually could help. But we can do without it.
[00:17:31] Roger Courville, CSP: It's not something I can slap in here.
[00:17:33] Edie Raether, CSP: Okay, okay. Then let me, let me do this and people can always write to me and get it.
So what we want to do, I want to talk a little bit about the master stream method. It has a lot to do with levels of productive tension. Let's face it. everything, when we take action, when is it? Threshold of activation. Um, I know people as a counselor, one of them is an alcoholic, doesn't quit drinking, but when she filed, he quits.
Because that threshold, the tension got high enough and it's like, okay, I'm gonna quit. My ex husband. wanted him to quit smoking. I wouldn't even marry him until he quit smoking. So he quit and then did a closet thing. Okay, so now, and he's still around, you know, the bottom line is when the doctor said you either quit, you either quit or you die.
That raised his tension. So after, I don't know, 50 years of smoking, he quits. If I have to get something to the post office in five minutes, do you know how fast, how productive I can be? All of us know this. So when you're in that sales process, The whole thing is, is you are basically attention manager.
And so what you want to do is connect where they are. Yeah. Develop the rapport, use their name. I have two kids. Do you have two kids? Oh, we have something in common. We have something in common when we first started talking. I live on water. You live on water. We like each other just a little bit more, don't we?
And then you said you've been in North Carolina, and so it just opens the door. So we kind of like each other because we share this. So that's good. That doesn't create a lot of tension to buy. That actually lowers tension. And people don't take action when they're in apathy. or the tension is too low, so then we have to raise the tension.
And the way we raise the tension, I cannot emphasize this enough, is becoming a master of asking questions. By the way, children that were asked more often, What do you want to be when you grow up? Or any question? Are more successful in life? Because what's happening is every time they're asked that question, the reticular activating system is planting seeds of greatness in their mind.
You can plant stuff in your avatar's mind, your potential client's mind, but it also plants In your mind, if I say, um, what would you be doing if you knew you couldn't fail, your brain automatically starts looking and you start setting your goals as opposed to saying, you know, you could be doing a lot more and you probably, if you didn't feel like you could fail.
Has nowhere the resonance does it? So I cannot emphasize enough that you manage people and yourself by the questions that you ask. So now we start asking questions, you know, like may, it might be if you don't act, what is the price you pay? Yeah, the price you pay may be 3, 000, but if you don't act what is the price you pay whether it's a physical pain whether it's investing You know in a seminar that you might be selling whatever it is.
What is the price that you're paying? for doing nothing. And by asking those questions, they become aware of their need for what you might have not to sell. What to offer as a service. I always like to look at myself as offering a service. You are too. And, and that makes them so aware. There's no objections.
By your questions, they're then saying, where do I sign? Where's the dotted line? I've got my, I got my pencil handy. I'm ready to go. So we bring up the tension. We bring up their awareness and we bring it from the subconscious to the conscious level. Where the final action and decision is made now, but once they see you as the solution, that's good.
I think it is. Is it? I think it is. But when you have a resolution, Roger, it's funny. I sent you 20 questions. One is all we need. I just take off like a top. Okay, when we have that. Okay, so now they're selling themselves, but there's resolution. What happens? Then people lower their attention. How many times have you signed up for something, but if you had three days to rescind, you might rescind.
Could be buyer's remorse, whatever you want to call it. But that's because the tension is lower. I'll tell you something. People who make a phone call to see their doctor, they get better. By just making the call, because there's a resolution inside. They also did studies where somebody was sitting in the doctor's office, and they were better just sitting there.
So the anticipation, and I will tell you, this is where dopamine's interesting. It's not just the activity that gives us the reward of the feel good feeling of dopamine, it is the anticipation. That's why planning a trip, Can sometimes feel better than being on the trip where everything goes wrong. You get a flat tire, but isn't it the planning of it?
Oh my God. It's so exciting. So then their tension, there's resolution goes down. So then you just have to bring it up a little bit and that's when you get to the level of commitment. Then it goes way down again. So you have to do the followup and be supportive because if they get out of your radar, you might hear from them within three days to say, Hey.
You know what? I talked to my wife. She changed her mind. My mind, you know what I'm talking about.
[00:23:45] Roger Courville, CSP: I do. Uh, I fact. Well, well, I, I'm, I'm pretty sure everybody listening knows exactly what you're talking about from our, from our own personal experience, if nothing else. But have you ever heard of Monroe's motivated sequence?
[00:24:01] Edie Raether, CSP: No. No, no, no.
[00:24:02] Roger Courville, CSP: This will sound familiar. So I'm, I'm, I'm gonna step into your territory. You're the expert on this, but, uh, this is something that I've, I learned long ago and I, uh. I've taught when I've taught presentation skills, uh, Alan Monroe is a professor at, um, Purdue and did a study on persuasiveness, uh, on, on how the brain was to see information and the nature of the structure of how the message should unfold when the intent is to persuade and the, the, the short version of the outcome is that is exactly what you're talking about.
Is is setting up first and foremost, uh, elevating the pain or the discomfort, something that makes the status quo undesirable. It also included a vision or a desired future state, right? Meaning we also want to tell them where to go and then and then paint the path to get there, right? So we know and, uh, uh, Stephen Coughlin was the head of psychology at or a psychology professor at Harvard and wrote a book about PowerPoint, interestingly enough, and is one of the many people that affirms that three or four is probably an optimum number of steps between pain or problem and promise because it needs to be the people need to see a path, but the steps can't be too far or they'll be demotivated.
Um, Anyway, so I just shortened that to an alliteration called problem promise past and it's, that's a little oversimplification of Monroe's motivated sequence, but at least in his research it was like, ah, okay, how do we escalate the pain or the problem so that the status quo becomes undesirable?
[00:25:59] Edie Raether, CSP: You know what?
This, this. I'm so glad you shared that. I am not, or I am aware of it now and I've taken notes. But that, no, and when you said problem, promise, path, that's, you want to simplify it. Because, remember, our attention span, now we're down to one or two seconds. I remember when it was 15 seconds and then 12, you know what I mean?
And, and so problem, want Promise Path. People can remember that. You don't want more. And people tend to gravitate. The brain likes things like three, five, seven. Seven is about it. We can usually know the seven top rental cars. Uh, phone numbers are seven digits. So if you go over seven, you're overloading people and an overloaded mind is going to go into stress.
Now, do people in high stress buy? Heck yes! They want an answer, right? They're motivated, but they're the ones that have the buyer's remorse. They're the ones that are going to waste your time. And so when I talk about the five levels of stress, stress is, is one. And people will act because they, they're hurting.
But do they make good decisions? No. Um, they go to one therapist and then they go to another and they, whatever is, it might be. And so then the next is power stress, Roger. So let me ask you, do you think people buy, in power stress. Do you think that's, and by the way, when I go through this with people, when we go through it, um, there's an ideal place where people buy, and an ideal place where you're going to perform at your best in sales performance.
So let me ask you, do you think power stress is a good place to be? It's where you've got some stress, But you have a certain amount of power because the core of everything, Roger, is control. People buy control. When they're out of control, that's the anxiety, the pain, and that's when they'll take action.
It's not always smart action, but they'll grab anything they can get, right? So they're an easy sale, but they may not be your best, best client. So do you think power stress is a good position?
[00:28:18] Roger Courville, CSP: I would have to ask you to define it because I'm not sure that I, I'm not sure that I have a grasp of that in a manner that, uh, probably has your nuance.
[00:28:28] Edie Raether, CSP: Yeah. Okay. So it's, it's, you know, you're not out of control. You're not so stressed, but there's a little bit of fire in your belly. There's a little bit of a need, a little bit of a want. Um, so it's enough to create some tension, but, but you're certainly not out of control. And are these the people that might want to change?
Are these the people that might want to buy? Do you think, well, let me go through the next one and then I'll let you pick. So the next one is power. So let's say I'm buying a car. Let's say you're a car salesman, and I have a lovely car. It works very, very well, but I do like that candy apple red convertible.
I like it, but the one I have is a nice Lamborghini. I'm okay with it. So, um, yeah, I, I could, I might, But there's not a lot of pressure saying, you know, it's not like I got flat tires. Okay. And then there's power apathy. And, and these are people that really have the ability to do things. They might be able to pay for it.
Um, but there's a little bit of resignation. They're almost a little bit sleeping at the wheel. And then there's total apathy. These people have just kind of zoned out to the point that they're delusional. You know, everything is just fine. Oh, really? Everybody around you sees the problem, but you're in your own mind.
You're just fine. What level do you think people will buy? Where would you want your client? And if they're not there by maneuvers that I teach. Upgrid, downgrid, outgrid, ingrid. We can get you there. So where would you say would be the best place to have someone to say, Yeah, we're in this together.
[00:30:26] Roger Courville, CSP: That's a good question.
Hey, it's been a while since I've done sales training. In fact, this will be a slight side road, but I'll, this resonates with, with my learning and journey in part because that Monroe's motivated sequence that I just shared with you, the underlying premise is introducing, if not stoking cognitive dissonance.
And you talked earlier about. the subconscious, right? And that the brain naturally wants to resolve that cognitive dissonance and therefore move from the problem and the pain to the, to the solution and desired future outcome. Um, that said,
we don't, I'm, I'm just kind of thinking out loud. We wouldn't want to take them to a place of being entirely out of control.
[00:31:12] Edie Raether, CSP: No, you wouldn't want to add to their stress. Yeah, that's, that would almost be a lack of integrity.
[00:31:18] Roger Courville, CSP: So we want, we would want them to be partners in the process. People love to buy, do hate, hate to be sold, right?
So they still need to be in a place where they can, they can cognitively and clearly work through whatever questions you've been asking them. Are we on the right track? You're the expert. Yeah,
[00:31:38] Edie Raether, CSP: exactly. So when you want somebody, you probably want somebody, you wouldn't want somebody in apathy because they're in the delusion that everything's fine.
Are they going to buy? They'll just keep eating their chocolate chip cookies and whatever and they're not about, they're not motivated to make change. I would say power apathy. a little better. People in power apathy are often very competent, competent. It's like the absent minded professor. They might have all of the accolades, but, but they've done it so long.
They're kind of burnt out. And so they don't have that energy, that fresh enthusiasm that you get sometimes with a new salesperson or something. They've just, yeah, they've been there. They've done it. And, um, yeah. So then we have power. Do you think power would be a good place? Or do you think power is stress?
I'll get, we're down to those two.
[00:32:31] Roger Courville, CSP: Seems like progress, right? We still want them to be pushing toward resolving tension.
[00:32:36] Edie Raether, CSP: Exactly, exactly. You, you win the prize, right? I
[00:32:42] Roger Courville, CSP: win the prize.
[00:32:44] Edie Raether, CSP: Yeah, you're absolutely right. There has to be a little bit of need, whether you're selling or you're buying. So it, it really goes, it goes either way, but everything that you were saying about Monroe's, um, uh, what was that?
Motivated sequence that is so in line with everything. And I like, I just want to comment on a couple of other things that you said. A path. Yes. Tell stories, you know, they always, if, yeah. I lost everything. I did very, very well. I lost not only millions, but I, I, I was, I went from, I was on Home and Garden Channel.
I went from a mansion to literally having no flushing toilet for 15 months. I had a pail from the Dollar Tree back when it was only a dollar. Now I might not be able to afford it. It's a buck 25. That was my commode and I'd look for where there was a porta potty. There's always construction going on someplace and, but you know what?
I never felt defeated. I, I, I do live I'm one of the best spots on this lake. And while I had no flushing toilet, no play stool, I was homeless. I had that. So I just looked at what I did have. You grow where you're planted. And I didn't, I had my brain and I had my laptop. So that's when I wrote the seven books.
So I think. You know, so now we're talking about attitude, aren't we? It's really, it's just never, never quite being defeated. And so if I tell that story, there are people out there that have been on a roller coaster. Most people don't have just that. You know, all uphill. There have been ups and downs in their life, whether it's divorce, losing a company.
I just became more personal to them and they'll, they'll probably relate to me. And, and you always want to end it on a positive. I'm doing just fine. I'm doing just fine. And I remember my mother saying, look at the bright side. And I just kept raising my vibration, so to speak, whether you call it prayer, visualization, mental imagery, neuropsychology, it doesn't matter.
But when you're, when you have that attitude of gratitude and you're grateful for the sales you do have, and you're not so focused on what you don't have. More will come to you. And that has now been scientifically proven. So that's why stories can be important. Make them short, but that is where they can connect.
And then you take them to writing their new story. Hey, have you been there? What steps do you need to take? To rewrite your story. So that's what I liked about what you said, putting them on that path. And you know, when you said the thing about the three might be too short. No, because a confused mind says no.
So we want to make it easy. Remember the brain is lazy. So you have to make, that's why it says buy here, buy now, click here, because it has to be easy and convenient. And a confused mind does say no. I remember somebody was going to buy one of my books and I said, I have a lot of anthologies. And they said, well, you may want this one on leadership.
And I, I introduced all these options thinking I was helping her. She bought nothing. I screwed You know what I mean? You don't want to give too many options and, and again, a confused mind will always say no. So if, what was that, what was that honey?
[00:36:18] Roger Courville, CSP: I was just going to put an exclamation point on what you just said.
There was a research, one of the uh, kind of seminal researchers in retail was a guy named Paco Underhill in the 1980s. Who researched how people made buying decisions and stuff in kind of like a retail environment and they did one of those experiments within store display of jams, right meaning here's you when you know When you walk into a store and they get you can taste all these different options, you know, and they order they On demo day at Costco or something like that when they and I forget To be fair, I forget how many was the optimum for them to set out.
It might have been six or seven or something like that. But at the top, it was like 16. And with too many options, people bought less than if there was something less.
[00:37:05] Edie Raether, CSP: And, and you know what? And I want to talk a little bit about right left brain. Because that is a right brainer thing. I'm an off the chart person.
Right brainer. I mean, that's why I can talk my way out of speeding tickets, anything. You just right brainers become so charming under stress. Left brainers are just give me the ticket. I'll pay. We'll be on our way, right? And, and, you know, and while you were talking, I also wanted to add this, um, to what you just said, Roger, is that, you know, we talk about features and benefits, but when you go deeper into the subconscious, you're talking about the benefits of the benefits.
It's like peeling an onion. So you might say, what's the benefit? Well, I'll make more money. No, no, no, no, no, no. That's not the benefit. What will the, what will the money give you? More freedom, more time to ride my jet ski. Ah, so the benefit isn't the money. It goes beyond that. And what does the freedom do?
What would you do with that freedom? So that's how you have to keep unpeeling so you really get to the deep down core of what people want, need, and that's where they will buy. Now let me say a little bit, I'm also certified in Herman Brain Dominance. Good, good program. But the stuff that I was talking about, the tension management, um, that's, that is, One of my most favorite models.
I think it's light years ahead of any sales model out there. But, um, right in lip ring, we have to realize too. I think too many people are almost thinking, you know, they have this magic formula. No, it all depends. You know what? If all people were cookie cutter, that would be great. But how would you sell to a right brain person as opposed to a left brain person?
And so when we talk about, we decide by emotion, justify it with logic. Do right brain people buy more out of emotion or logic? And I know you know the answer. It's emotion. They're going to, you know, and that's why I do, I sign up for every stupid, Oh, all these webinars I'm on. And I put down my credit card.
And then if I've got a couple of days, I'm like the law, it takes longer for right brain people to get that circuit to go up. And, and actually the circuit is only one way. And, and so we do have to, Kind of watch that. That's why I have a left brain person and, um, I run things by him. He drives me nuts. He's so left brain, so analytical.
He wants all the facts and figures and I just want to, you know, impulsively get it. But I, every time I have screwed up, it's because I didn't run it by Barry. That's it. And so sometimes we need that balance. And, and so if you're, if you are selling to a left brained person, you know, do a quick summation of who they are and if they're left brained and they want more facts, figures, and statistics, that's what they're basing their decision on.
And other people, you know, as long as there's a good sound system in the car, they don't care about the miles per hour. They don't care if there's tires on
[00:40:12] Roger Courville, CSP: it. What was
[00:40:13] Edie Raether, CSP: that?
[00:40:13] Roger Courville, CSP: I said bring it, that's me.
[00:40:17] Edie Raether, CSP: Bring it on. So I think we all have to realize, Roger, that we're in the business of transformation. That is what we're selling.
What, you know, when we go to these networking things and we say, you know, I'm this and I'm that, I do believe, I like to say as a, international keynote speaker, whatever. I try to have one sentence where there's some credibility and after 80 years, I would think my resume is a little bit longer than somebody 25 years old.
But after that, it should be all, what am I going? to do for you to transform your life, to give you more control to ease your pain. Then once you're easing the pain, then that last 10, 20%, then that can be aspirations. That's where the story, what's your new story? That's where you take them on the path.
That's where you ask them the question, you know, what would it look like if you took this action? And if you don't take it, What is the price you pay? So you get them to get very clear. And then it's easy. It's, it's really, and you do have to, you have to make it easy. So, in a way, we're in the transfer, business because what we're doing is taking them from where they are to where they want to be.
And, and, and I'll tell you one other thing. You got to look at the obstacles. So many people are just, I mean, I'm an optimist and I want to be positive. But once you take away the barriers of their beliefs, people, you will only succeed to the level that your belief will take you. And it's amazing how many younger people have never heard of a governor.
Roger, are you old enough to remember there used to be a governor on a car? So Yeah, you could set it so it couldn't go more than 40 miles an hour. Well, if you're in selling and and if you had a father for example that said you're never gonna amount to anything and you're never gonna be able to sell a book or a dang dime, you, that belief, if it was said repeatedly, is now rooted into your subconscious and you can do every one of these things.
kind of, you know, podcast. You can read all the self help books. It's not going to make a difference until you change your belief system. I always say when we're talking about persuasion or negotiation, you don't get what you deserve. You get what you negotiate, but even more so, even more so you get what deep down you believe.
You deserve and can make happen. That's why I bounce back. Not only did I lose every dime, I lost four to five million, I lost every dime, but I think I had a couple, probably a quarter of a million in debt and I am above water. And so what I'm saying really, you know, we'll make the difference. It's, it's all the, the power of belief.
And so many people just have it. We all have a set point with losing weight. We have a set point. How many people will lose weight? Then they gain it back. There is a set point in your subconscious of what you believe you can achieve and what you deserve. And if you. Don't. Reset that. Then no amount of learning, no, no amount of sales courses are ever going to make the difference.
Let me tell you a story. I just heard this the other day. Some of you may have heard of the actor Jim Carrey. You know him?
[00:43:45] Roger Courville, CSP: Oh yeah.
[00:43:46] Edie Raether, CSP: Oh you do? Okay. I, I don't go to a lot of movies. So anyway, listen to this. He was only, I think it was in his 20s, wanted to be an actor, was ready to work in the factory because as you know, a lot of actors end up as waiters and waitresses rather than on, in Hollywood.
Okay, he wrote, listen to this, I love this story. He writes out a check to himself. Unfortunately, the only thing he did wrong, he post dated it 10 years, he should have made it 10 weeks. He wrote a check for 10 million to himself. And guess what happened 10 years later? He got, I forgot the name of the movie, but it was a big movie and it brought him 10 million.
You all have heard of Mark Victor Hanson. Chicken soup for the soul, co author. He talks about, he didn't have a dang dime. He was worse off than I was, and he would always tell people he's very, he's very, very rich. He just doesn't have the money yet. So it's just setting, yeah, that belief system high. And then you'll, you'll take the steps.
that are necessary. So anyway, this, this has been a real joy and I love, you know, what you mentioned about, you know, the, the Monroe motivated, um, sequence, because it is so much like the master stream method that, that I do teach. So I think it's all good to do. Do you have any other questions now that I've grabbed up through
[00:45:20] Roger Courville, CSP: the end of our time?
So I've got one final question for you.
[00:45:23] Edie Raether, CSP: Yep.
[00:45:23] Roger Courville, CSP: What is one question I should have asked you that I haven't?
[00:45:28] Edie Raether, CSP: Oh, wow. I'm impressed.
Wow. And I'm not usually lost for an answer. That is really.
[00:45:40] Roger Courville, CSP: Okay. So here's an easier one.
[00:45:43] Edie Raether, CSP: Yeah. I'm impressed with the question though, because you know what, when I'm taking a shower tomorrow morning, I'll come up with the answer. Isn't that true? You can't think of somebody's name. You're taking a shower and you think of it.
So the more you ask the question, the reticular activating system is checking it out. But yeah, ask another question.
[00:46:01] Roger Courville, CSP: Well, this one's a little easier. How to get in touch with you. What's the best way to get in touch with you?
[00:46:08] Edie Raether, CSP: Oh, I love it. I love it. Um, ed at rather. com. My name is there So it just put the at sign in between and my website is just ed rather calm See, I'm keeping it very simple and I'm gonna give my phone number because I'm very auditory 704 658 8997.
And yeah, I would love to just chat with people, see what we can do to make a difference. And, and, you know, just. Start creating new neural pathways, and there's something that I talk about, I think it was in my first TED Talk, and it's the Rykoff effect, where they had children believe that they could play like Mozart, and guess what happened?
They had children doing stick figures. and believing they were Picasso. And guess what happened? The magic is in with the magic is within you. All you have to do is start creating new, new neural pathways by act the way you want to be, and you'll be the way you act. I promise. And I will talk to you soon.
[00:47:23] Roger Courville, CSP: What a great way to end. But you've done this once or twice, so hey, a big virtual round of applause for Edie Raether again, and thank you so much for dropping more than a few wisdom nuggets on us today.
[00:47:35] Edie Raether, CSP: It's been a delight. You're a delight, Roger. Anytime. We'll pick up again soon. Take care.
[00:47:40] Roger Courville, CSP: Well, thank you again to Edie Raether, E D I E.
R A E T H E R dot com or, uh, and I will put all of the links in your phone number and stuff that you just shared, uh, on our web blog when, when this goes live. And with that, I also want to thank you again to, uh, our sponsor today, Virtual Venues, where you can instantly scale your virtual and hybrid event production team.
We'll catch you on the next episode of Thought Leader Conversations.
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